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Bullying at our schools
by ranfuchs @ 10/01/2008 - 12:15:58

Today’s paper reported on another young school girl who committed suicide, allegedly as a result of school bullying.

I don’t know if the claim is true; I don’t know what the statistics are. But from my personal experience, school bullying is much more tolerated here, in the UK, than in other countries I’ve been.

I have three kids going to three different schools, and this is the fourth country we’ve lived in since they started their schooling. We’ve always lived in similar type of suburbs, and sent our kids to similar types of schools. By all means, my three kids have encountered (fortunately, not first hand) more bullying here than in any of their previous schools.

But the scarier thing is not the bullying itself, but the total inability of the schools stuff to discipline the bullies. Despite the fact that a single bully can make life hell for all other students, school stuff is not given any means whatsoever to handle bullies.

As one of the teachers said: “I don’t know why we need to sacrifice entire classes of good student for some hypothetical ideal of giving everyone equal opportunity. It simply doesn’t work.”

If you learn at schools that bullying doesn’t have a price, can we really complain about the level of violence in our streets?

Is the horrendous crime level in out street on anyone’s agenda?

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Tags: bullying, crime, education, school, violence,

 
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eggbodeggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 12:33

Sadly the legislation protects perps of crime and NOT victims as I have discovered to my cost first hand.

I destest the lily-livered attitude and lack of discipline on all levels within our society. And yet again nobody is deemed accountable for their actions.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 12:42

and we don't hear anyone even trying to confront the issue

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eggbodeggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 12:51

I would like to blame the police and indeed have in the past, however they are just a small part of a bigger problem and until legislation changes I can foresee more stabbings in the street, bullying, lack of discipline and respect.

Only yesterday an article on the rights of "reasonable force" for victims of burglary in their own homes was ridiculous! I feel compelled to say that anyone entering my home with intent to thieve, vandalise and/or maim and injury will receive the most forceful of encounters even if it means beating them to death!!!!! And to hell with what the law says!

Just had to get that little one of my chest

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 13:00

I agree with you about our right to protect ourselves. I didn't see the article, do you have a ref to it?

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eggbodeggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 13:04

It was yesterday's Times I think..........

I gave it a cursory glance as I hold that sort of thing in such scathing regard.

None of what the law considers reasonable force would I bother with. A firm beating with a baseball is what anyone would receive if entering my home.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 13:08

Ineed. I have a baseball bat in any corner

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eggbodeggbod [Member]
http://wordworld.blog.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 13:15

I keep a knob-kerrie (an african fighting stick) under my bed. It's longer and thicker than a walking stick with large wooden bulbous head at one end. In fact, in Africa, razor blades would be inserted into the bulbous, wooden head!

It's a cheap life in Africa and I lived there a long time

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 13:17

sounds facinating. What were you doing there

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 13:23

Not sure whether our crime is that much worse than that of other countries...saw an alarming scene on EuroNews of two individuals in Germany kicking an elderly man continually on the ground in a tube station and others kicking and attacked somebody on a train...both were immigrants in the first attack, and the argument now is that the example is being used in Germany to raise anti-immigrant feelings so what's different to what's happening here whenever crime is committed by immigrants and they get the blame for the increasing crime rates...if you listen to EuroNews instead of British news, you do get a wider perspective on life across the EU and not the focussed, narrow point of view shown on our news broadcasts nowadays...bullying is horrible and terrible when a youngster kills his or her self but why on earth are youngsters killing themselves now over bullying...it didn't happen in my day and bullies were around...I know, right from an early age, I was in there kicking and punching anybody who tried to bully me or anyone else HLOL...my parents sent me to a private school after a couple of terms in a state school because of this habit of mine...didn't change me, still abhor bullying...maybe the kids of today are too damned soft...they tolerate bullies instead of standing up to them...mind you, ours never had knives or guns so things were definitely different...damn must learn to make short comments...LOL...big hugs...

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 13:45

I never claimed we were the worst. I don't have statistics, but should we be taking the worst as a benchmark?

In education as well, we only dropped from 5th to 14th place, there are still many worse than we are. So lets sit, have a drink and relax. The bottom is still far.

Isn't it a horrible state of affairs when the worst become our benchmark?

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 15:23

Yes, I agree with that completely, and sorry if my comments sounded as if I was inferring that you did think we were the worst...I was just trying to point out that bad things happen all over the place nowadays and I suppose always did...educationally, we do seem to have taken a nose dive and not sure why that is other than to believe that our kids have become so disillusioned that acquiring an education is low on their scale of priorities, but that is probably wrong as well if you see them gathered round the results board whooping with pleasure when they get good marks or disappearing quickly if bad...so who's to blame...governments for trying to make sure that every child in the country got a first class education...the teachers for not teaching the ever changing carriculum properly...parents for not demanding the best for their kids...they do vehemently and vociferously often...so what is it? Maybe it's our governments lack of funding for research and apprenticeships that has stopped youngsters going for the sciences, engineering and jobs requiring higher qualifications that's the problem...now they seem to choose some pretty useless subjects to study at University, most of which will leave them unemployable afterwards...I think that maybe the answer...we've neglected higher learning in favour of the fashionable...that's really, really stupid but maybe not too late to correct if this government recognizes if failures...

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 15:34

look, on the other hand at eastern Europe, how their level of education is improving year by year, while ours is declining. It is not where we are that really matters, it is whether we are getting better or worse.

I am thinking of the situation when I went to school, people who could not get first class education (because they were not suitable) went to technical schools, and got great jobs, and today they are having decent life. Academic schools where only for those who could. Schools were not involved with politically correctness acts, they just taught their subjects. And in general it seems that we managed to learn.

So I am not looking for who to blame. If we are happy with the situation lets not do a thing. If we are not, lets find a way to improve. After all, why do we work to pay our MPs?
If they cannot do their job properly lets send them to do some real work, for a change.

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 16:04

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=166184

http://news.independent.co.uk/education/higher/article1795985.ece

Two interesting reports here...I thought tech colleges still existed...bit out of the loop now with schooling now that our son is in his mid thirties...what happens now to higher education students in the UK?

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 16:06

http://globaltechforum.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=rich_story&channelid=4&categoryid=29&doc_id=10224
Here's one more...so not sure where you're getting your inf from.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 17:16

Can anyone translate this for the non-initiated?

Naturally, here we are talking about level of education, not bullying. But if we are on the subject see:

http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm

As you can see, we are far from being the worst. But if it were football and not science and math, they would have sucked the coach long ago.

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 19:11

Yes, looks pretty bad, but I think it supports what I said earlier about the move away from teaching the sciences and, I didn't mention mathematics, but should have, for more fashionable subjects...I think at the moment there's a seismic shift in the world with the US and western Europe floundering as it sees its period of domination slipping away...it was inevitable, nothing lasts for ever and the new players are going all out now to keep the impetus going...when Thatcher destroyed our manufacturing base and the USA's also foundered, an awful lot of people moved into advisory employment and consultation...those jobs are still in demand but not in the UK or the USA, huge numbers are out of work now and there's been no replacement jobs for these now redundant consultants, mostly in finance and insurance...where do our young go now for jobs? What are they going to do in the future? I've no idea what type of employment is going to be provided for these students either leaving University or school...our non white collar jobs are being spread among both our own people and new comers to our country so eventually, there will be a saturation point met...if our research departments cannot find good people because many have gone abroad seeking better opportunities, or are just not qualified enough to do the job, that whole area will wither and die of which we were justifiably proud once upon a time...to return to bullying for a moment in school...if what I have said holds a grain of truth, if not is the truth, the young must know this deep down...it doesn't make for an attitude of hope amongst the young...more a case of dog eat dog if you want to survive in the tough outside world...the weak get squashed, and the bully survives...it's not right, but it's the law of the jungle in the sense that the strong not only consumes the weak but also protects them as well such as the presence of a tiger in the area means that some will become food for it, but wherever it lives, other predators steer clear so more animals survive with it around...this is not to condone bullying for one minute, just to say that its rise is as a result of our having lost our way, and have yet to find out where we belong in this fast changing world....

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 19:11

Sorry for such a long reply...:-/

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 19:17

Always enjoy reading yor insight :)

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 19:49

Always enjoy a good conflab...HLOL...mouthy, opinionated and dearly desire us all to live in peace with one another that's me, and I don't know any other way other than talking, and talking, and talking, it's so much better than killing each other...big hugs..

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 19:16

Most ex-empires never lost their way again, and just decayed. Is that the future of the UK as well?

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jenrayjenray pro
http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
2008-01-10 @ 19:45

I fear so...natural decay or entropy...happens to everything after a long extended use of energy...we're running out of it...maybe not as depressing as it sounds...maybe we're trying to be what we no longer are a world power...still remnants of power left because of our long history, but Spain had an empire once and it lost it and found a level of its own after it got rid of a man who wanted to restore Spain to its former glory...Fascists tend to believe in the myth of resurrection or the phoenix rising from the ashes but it rarely if ever works...Russia may find its way back to a semblance of pride and dignity after taking a resounding thrashing when it lost the Union, but won't be an empire again...not that it was one as the Soviet Union because didn't try to spread beyond its satellite countries...well not in the way we did as the British Empire...now our strength is probably as part of a greater Europe though anti-EU people would no doubt jump up and down and throw that prospect right out...believing that we can survive as an independent nation with our alliance with the USA and the Commonwealth...which I would say won't survive for that much longer so trying to stand alone is probably akin to madness, but there we go...one way or the other we'll be dragged kicking and screaming fully into Europe as our position in the world becomes ever more clear to all of us...we're not a single global village yet, but several new villages are beginning to appear and, with luck, we'll all be able to trade together and learn to live alongside each other in time...so long as some moron doesn't blow us all to pieces first...:)

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 19:16

Most ex-empires never lost their way again, and just decayed. Is that the future of the UK as well?

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 16:57

The second report talks about business school, which I know nothing about. However, the first report can have different interpretation. Knowing that German are never satisfied with anything, is it possible that British patents require less from the education than their peers ?

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PrettyintelligentprincessPrettyintelligentprincess [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 14:54

Back to the point re bullying in schools. It is a requirement that all schools now have anti-bullying policies and legislation in place which can be viewed by parents and students. any school worth its salt will have lots of input from the students themselves with these policies.Many also have buddy systems where there are appointed student mentors to turn to straight away if the teachers seem too intimidating...or more probably...not having the necessary time to deal with the situation properly because of other pressures...such as achieving academic targets. Bullying will never go away...indeed it is as evident in the adult workplace is it not? Let's not blame the police. Let's not blame the school and the staff...where exactly do the parents fit in to all this? Once again...it is the parenting skills which are brought into question as to how we raise our children to be fair and thoughtful and kind.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 14:57

but they have the policies in place, they know who the bully is, and what can they do now. What means do they have to confront the problem?

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PrettyintelligentprincessPrettyintelligentprincess [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 15:15

School needs evidence. Written statements from witnesses..you may laugh but this is needed.There are ususlly witnesses... rarely NO witnesses. Bully interviewed by pastoral year leader and case put to him or her. Lots of times there is more than meets the eye. Personal upset at home, death of a grandparent, jealous of a sibling (not making excuses...but sometimes the home situation triggers it). Then the bully's parents are called in...if deemed appropriate or spoken to on phone depending on the seriousness of his/her actions. Bully and victim are spoken to together and this should be monitored by appropriate pastoral team members. If as a parent you make a big enough noise about it something will get done...but be completely certain you get all the facts from your child first...everything...even anything antagonistic they may have done.If your children are in a fee paying/private school..then...I believe you need to make even more noise about it.Not good publicity you see...

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-10 @ 15:23

It was not really a personal issue here. As I said, as my kids are in three different schools, they are observing and reporting on it. Fortunately, they have not been the targets of the bullying.

I agree that bullies may have a background that explains their bullying, and that often they need help. But should we sacrifice 30 other kids to help one? There must be a different way

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joebanglesjoebangles [Member]
2008-01-11 @ 20:35

A big problem ranfuchs, knowing when your children are being bullied, or, knowing if your child is a bully, have both to be recognised by the signs that both of these show, more publicity should be given to these signs and I am trying to help in this regard with a blog at, http://askoranswer.wetpaint.com/page/BULLYING.
I try to mention it whenever I get the opportunity.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-11 @ 23:02

thanks for the info. I think that every one with schoolage children must be aware of these signs. I will pass them on at my kids schools

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deleted user [Visitor]

2008-01-16 @ 21:28

bullying is an interesting thing. At my daughters school there seems to be an ethos of bullying and supporting bullying and the victims have to jump through loads of hoops - the onus is on them to deal with it..hard when they are already feeling so vulnerable....the perpetrator just carries on...but the teachers are bullies so that doesn't help. Not all of them of course but the Head is......and I guess it all trickles down unfortunately:-/......and of course there is no escape from it if the kids are texted or contacted via internet as happened to Tinks. No escape as of in my day when you came home from school that was it. Now you can keep in touch so easily bullying can escalate at great rate out of school. That is what I have found to be happening, so the experience is relentless - no let up.

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-17 @ 00:38

Do you think that we need to establish youth police? At the moment there is noone who seems to have any authority to handle it

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deleted user [Visitor]

2008-01-17 @ 09:35

I think more skill learning for surviving bullying or resisting it or dealing with it .....as of part of the curriculem!! Thing with police type thingies....they aint above bullying themselves unfortunately. Give anybody a bit of power and the temptation to abuse that power seems to be irrisistable for some....:-/....

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ranfuchsranfuchs [Member]
2008-01-17 @ 10:39

power is a must if you want to run any group of people, let it be a classrom, a company or a country. The problem is with uncontrolled power.

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